MODERATOR:
(Note: President Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad's comments are through interpreter.)
Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad speaking
at
Columbia University
MR.
BOLLINGER: I would like to
begin by thanking Dean John Coatsworth and Professor Richard Bulliet for their
work in organizing this event and for their commitment to the School of
International and Public Affairs and its role -- (interrupted by cheers,
applause) -- and for its role in training future leaders in world affairs. If
today proves anything, it will be that there is an enormous amount of work ahead
of us. This is just one of many events on Iran that will
run throughout the academic year, all to help us better understand this critical
and complex nation in today's geopolitics.
Before speaking
directly to the current president of Iran, I have a few critically
important points to emphasize. First, in 2003 the World Leaders Forum has
advanced Columbia's long-standing tradition of serving
as a major forum for robust debate, especially on global issues. It should never
be thought that merely to listen to ideas we deplore in any way implies our
endorsement of those ideas or our weakness of our resolve to resist those ideas
or our naivety about the very real dangers inherent in such ideas. It is a
critical premise of freedom of speech that we do not honor the dishonorable when
we open our public forum to their voices; to hold otherwise would make vigorous
debate impossible.
Second, to those who
believe that this event should never have happened, that it is inappropriate for
the university to conduct such an event, I want to say that I understand your
perspective and respect it as reasonable. The scope of free speech in academic
freedom should itself always be open to further debate. As one of the more
famous quotations about free speech goes, it is an experiment as all life is an
experiment. I want to say, however, as forcefully as I can that this is the
right thing to do, and indeed it is required by the existing norms of free
speech, the American university and Columbia itself.
Third, to those
among us who experience hurt and pain as a result of this day, I say on behalf
of all of us that we are sorry and wish to do what we can to alleviate it.
Fourth, to be clear
on another matter, this event has nothing whatsoever to do with any rights of
the speaker, but only with our rights to listen and speak. We do it for
ourselves. We do it in the great tradition of openness that has defined this
nation for many decades now. We need to understand the world we live in, neither
neglecting its glories nor shrinking from its threats and dangers. It is
inconsistent with the idea that one should know thine enemy -- I'm sorry -- it
is consistent with the idea that one should know thine enemies, to have the
intellectual and emotional courage to confront the mind of evil, and to prepare
ourselves to act with the right temperament. In the moment, the arguments for
free speech will never seem to match the power of the arguments against, but
what we must remember is that this is precisely because free speech asks us to
exercise extraordinary self-restraint against the very natural but often
counterproductive impulses that lead us to retreat from engagement with ideas we
dislike and fear. In this lies the genius of the American idea of free speech.
Lastly, in
universities we have a deep and almost single-minded commitment to pursue the
truth. We do not have access to the levers of power, we cannot make war or
peace, we can only make minds, and to do this, we must have the most fulsome
freedom of inquiry.
Let me now turn to
Mr. Ahmadinejad.
First, on the brutal
crackdown on scholars, journalists and human rights advocates. Over the past two
weeks, your government has released Dr. Haleh Esfandiari and Parnaz Azima and
just two days ago, Kian Tajbakhsh, a graduate of Columbia with a PhD in Urban Planning. While
our community is relieved to learn of his release on bail, Dr. Tajbakhsh remains
in Tehran under
house arrest, and he still does not know whether he will be charged with a crime
or allowed to leave the country.
Let me say this for
the record, I call on the president today to ensure that Kian will be free to
travel out of Iran as he wishes. (Applause.) Let me also report today that we
are extending an offer to Kian to join our faculty as a visiting professor in
Urban Planning here at his alma mater in our Graduate School of Architecture,
Planning and Preservation, and we hope he will be able to join us next semester.
(Applause.)
The arrest and
imprisonment of these Iranian Americans for no good reason is not only
unjustified, it runs completely counter to the very values that allow today's
speaker to even appear on this campus, but at least they are alive.
According to Amnesty
International, 210 people have been executing In Iran so far this year, 21 of
them on the morning of September 5th alone. This annual total includes at two
children, further proof, as Human Rights Watch puts it, that Iran leads the
world in executing minors.
There is more.
Iran hanged up 30 people this past
July and August during a widely reported suppression of efforts to establish a
more democratic society. Many of these executions were carried out in public
view, a violation of the International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights,
to which Iran is a party. These executions and
others have coincided with a wider crackdown on student activists and academics
accused of trying to foment a so-called "soft revolution." This has included
jailing and forced retirement of scholars. As Dr. Esfandiari said in a broadcast
interview since her release, she was held in solitary confinement for 105 days
because the government believes that the United
States is planning a velvet revolution in
Iran.
In this very room,
last year we learned something about velvet revolutions from Vaclav Havel, and
we will likely hear the same from our World Leaders Forum speaker this evening,
President Michelle Bachelet of Chile. Both of their extraordinary
stories remind us that there are not enough prisons to prevent an entire society
that wants its freedom from achieving it.
We at this
university have not been shy to protest the challenge -- and challenge the
failures of our own government to live by our values, and we won't be shy about
criticizing yours. Let's then be clear at the beginning. Mr. President, you
exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator. And so I ask you --
(applause) -- and so I ask you, why have women, members of the Baha'i faith,
homosexuals and so many of our academic colleagues become targets of persecution
in your country? Why, in a letter last week to the secretary-general of the
U.N., did Akbar Ganji, Iran's leading political dissident, and over 300 public
intellectuals, writers and Noble Laureates express such grave concern that your
inflamed dispute with the West is distracting the world's attention from the
intolerable conditions in your regime within Iran, in particular the use of the
press law to ban writers for criticizing the ruling system? Why are you so
afraid of Iranian citizens expressing their opinions for change?
In our country, you
are interviewed by our press and asked to speak here today. And while my
colleagues at the law school -- Michael Dorf, one of my colleagues, spoke to
Radio Free Europe, viewers in Iran a short while ago on the tenants of freedom
of speech in this country -- I propose further that you let me lead a delegation
of students and faculty from Columbia to address your universities about free
speech with the same freedom we afford you today. (Applause.)
Secondly, the denial
of the Holocaust. In a December 2005 state television broadcast, you described
the Holocaust as "a fabricated legend." One year later, you held a two-day
conference of Holocaust deniers. For the illiterate and ignorant, this is
dangerous propaganda.
When you have come
to a place like this, this makes you, quite simply, ridiculous. You are either
brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated. You should know -- (applause)
-- please -- you should know that Columbia is the
world center of Jewish studies -- us a world center, and now in partnership with
the -- Institute
of Holocaust Studies.
Since the 1930s, we
provided an intellectual home for countless Holocaust refugees and survivors and
their children and grandchildren. The truth is that the Holocaust is the most
documented event in human history. Because of this, and for many other reasons,
your absurd comments about the debate over the Holocaust both defy historical
truth and make all of us who continue to fear humanity's capacity for evil
shudder at this closure of memory, which is always virtue's first line of
defense. Will you cease this outrage?
The destruction of
Israel. Twelve days ago you said that
the state of Israel cannot continue its life. This
echoed a number of inflammatory statements you have delivered in the past two
years, including in October 2005, when you said that Israel "should
be wiped off the map", quote-unquote. Columbia
has over 800 alumni currently living in Israel. As an institution, we have
deep ties with our colleagues there. I have personally spoken -- personally, I
have spoken out in most forceful terms against proposals to boycott Israeli
scholars (in/and ?) universities, saying that such boycotts might as well
include Columbia. (Applause.)
More than 400 --
more than 400 -- more than 400 college and university presidents in this country
have joined in that statement.
My question then is,
do you plan on wiping us off the map too? (Applause.)
Funding
terrorism: According to
reports of the Council on Foreign Relations, it's well-documented that
Iran is a state sponsor of
terror that funds such violent groups as Lebanese Hezbollah, which
Iran helped organize in the 1980s,
Palestinian Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. While your predecessor
government was instrumental in providing the U.S. with intelligence and base
support in the 2001 campaign against the Taliban in Afghanistan, your government
is now undermining American troops in Iraq by funding, arming and providing safe
transit to insurgent leaders like Muqtada al-Sadr and his forces. There are a
number of reports that you also link your government with Syria's efforts
to destabilize the fledgling Lebanese government through violence and political
assassination.
My question is
this: Why do you support
well-documented terrorist organizations that continue to strike at peace and
democracy in the Middle East, destroying lives
and the civil society of the region?
The proxy war
against the United States troops in Iraq -- in a briefing before the National
Press Club earlier this month, General David Petraeus reported that arms
supplies from Iran, including 240- millimeter rockets and explosively formed
projectiles, are contributing to, quote, "a sophistication of attacks that would
by no means be possible without Iranian support." A number of Columbia graduates and current students are among the brave
members of our military who are serving or have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. They, like other
Americans with sons, daughters, fathers, husbands and wives serving in combat,
rightly see your government as the enemy.
Can you tell them
and us why Iran is fighting a
proxy war in Iraq by arming
Shi'a militia targeting and killing U.S. troops?
And finally Iran's
nuclear program and international sanctions: This week, the
United Nations Security Council is contemplating expanding sanctions for a third
time, because of your government's refusal to suspend its uranium enrichment
program. You continue to defy this world body by claiming a right to develop a
peaceful nuclear power, but this hardly withstands scrutiny when you continue to
issue military threats to neighbors. Last week, French President Sarkozy made
clear his lost patience with your stall tactics, and even Russia and China have shown
concern.
Why does your
country continue to refuse to adhere to international standards for nuclear
weapons verification, in defiance of agreements that you have made with the U.N.
nuclear agency? And why have you chosen to make the people of your country
vulnerable to the effects of international economic sanctions, and threaten to
engulf the world in nuclear annihilation? (Applause.)
Let me close with a
comment. Frankly -- I close with this comment frankly and in all candor, Mr.
President. I doubt that you will have the intellectual courage to answer these
questions. But your avoiding them will in itself be meaningful to us. I do
expect you to exhibit the fanatical mindset that characterizes so much of what
you say and do. Fortunately I am told by experts on your country that this only
further undermines your position in Iran, with all the many good-hearted,
intelligent citizens there.
A year ago, I am
reliably told, your preposterous and belligerent statements in this country, as
at one of the meetings at the Council on Foreign Relations, so embarrassed
sensible Iranian citizens that this led to your party's defeat in the December
mayoral elections. May this do that and more. (Applause.)
I am only a
professor, who is also a university president.
And today I feel all
the weight of the modern civilized world yearning to express the revulsion at
what you stand for. I only wish I could do better. Thank you. (Cheers, extended
applause.)
MR.
COATSWORTH: Thank you, Lee.
Our principal
speaker today is His Excellency the president of the Islamic Republic of Iran,
Mr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Mr. President. (Applause.)
INTERPRETER: The president is
reciting verses from the Holy Koran in Arabic. (Not translated.)
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: Oh, God, hasten the
arrival of Imam al- Mahdi and grant him good health and victory, and make us his
followers and those who attest to his (rightfulness ?).
Distinguished Dean,
dear professors and students, ladies and gentlemen. At the outset, I would like
to extend my greetings to all of you. I am grateful to the Almighty God for
providing me with the opportunity to be in an academic environment, those
seeking truth and striving for the promotion of science and knowledge.
At the outset, I
want to complain a bit on the person who read this political statement against
me. In Iran, tradition requires that when we demand a person to invite us as a
-- to be a speaker, we actually respect our students and the professors by
allowing them to make their own judgment, and we don't think it's necessary
before the speech is even given to come in -- (applause) -- with a series of
claims and to attempt in a so-called manner to provide vaccination of some sort
to our students and our faculty.
I think the text
read by the (dear ?) gentleman here, more than addressing me, was an insult to
information and the knowledge of the audience here, present here. In a
university environment, we must allow people to speak their mind, to allow
everyone to talk so that the truth is eventually revealed by all. Most certainly
he took more than all the time I was allocated to speak. And that's fine with
me. We'll just leave that to add up with the claims of respect for freedom and
the freedom of speech that is given to us in this country.
In many parts of his
speech, there were many insults and claims that were incorrect, regretfully. Of
course, I think that he was affected by the press, the media and the political
sort of mainstream line that you read here, that goes against the very grain of
the need for peace and stability in the world around us.
Nonetheless, I
should not begin by being affected by this unfriendly treatment.
I will tell you what
I have to say, and then the questions he can raise and I'll be happy to provide
answers. But for one of the issues that he did raise, I most certainly would
need to elaborate further so that we for ourselves can see how things
fundamentally work.
It was my decision
in this valuable forum and meeting to speak with you about the importance of
knowledge, of information, of education. Academics and religious scholars are
shining torches who shed light in order to remove darkness and the ambiguities
around us in guiding humanity out of ignorance and perplexity. The key to the
understanding of the realities around us rests in the hands of the researchers,
those who seek to undiscover (sic) areas that are hidden, the unknown sciences.
The windows of realities that they can open is done only through efforts of the
scholars and the learned people in this world. With every effort, there is a
window that is opened and one reality is discovered.
Whenever the high
stature of science and wisdom is preserved and the dignity of scholars and
researchers are respected, humans have taken great strides towards their
material and spiritual promotion. In contrast, whenever learned people and
knowledge have been neglected, humans have become stranded in the darkness of
ignorance and negligence. If it were not for human instinct, which tends towards
continual discovery of the truth, humans would have always remained stranded in
ignorance and no way would have discovered how to improve the lives that we are
given. The nature of man is, in fact, a gift granted by the Almighty to all. The
Almighty led mankind into this world and granted him wisdom and knowledge as his
(kind ?) gift, enabling him to know his God.
In the story of
Adam, a conversation occurs between the Almighty and his angels. The angels
called human beings an ambitious and merciless creature and protested against
his creation, but the Almighty responded, quote, "I have knowledge of what you
are ignorant of," unquote. Then the Almighty told Adam the truth, and on the
order of the Almighty, Adam revealed it to the angels.
The angels could not
understand the truth as revealed by the human beings.
The Almighty said to
them, quote, "Did not I say that I am aware of what is hidden in heaven and in
the universe?" unquote. In this way, the angels prostrated themselves before
Adam.
In the mission of
all divine prophets, the first sermons were of the words of God, and those words
"piety," "faith" and "wisdom" have been spread to all mankind. Guiding the holy
prophet Moses -- may peace be upon him -- God says, quote, "And he was taught
wisdom, the divine book, the Old Testament and the New Testament. He is the
prophet appointed for the sake of the children of Israel, and I
rightfully brought a sign from the Almighty. Holy Koran -- (inaudible word) --
sura," unquote.
The first words
which were revealed to the holy prophet of Islam call the prophet to read,
quote, "Read, read in the name of your God, who supersedes everything," unquote.
The Almighty, quote again, "who taught the human being with the pen," unquote;
quote, "the Almighty taught human beings what they were ignorant of," unquote.
You see in the first
verses revealed to the holy prophet of Islam words of reading, teaching and the
pen are mentioned. These verses in fact introduce the Almighty as the teacher of
human beings, the teacher who taught humans what they were ignorant of. And
another part of the -- (inaudible word) -- on the mission on the holy prophet of
Islam -- it is mentioned that the Almighty appointed someone from amongst the
common people as their prophet in order to, quote, "Read for them the divine
verses," unquote; and, quote again, "and purify them from ideological and
ethical contaminations," unquote; and, quote again, "to teach them the divine
book and wisdom," unquote.
My dear friends, all
the words and messages of the divine prophets, from Abraham and Isaac and Jacob
to David and Soliman and Moses to Jesus and Mohammed, delivered humans from
ignorance, negligence, superstitions, unethical behavior and corrupted ways of
thinking with respect to knowledge and a path to knowledge, light and rightful
ethics.
In our culture, the
word "science" has been defined as "illumination." In fact, the "science" means
"brightness" and the real science is a science which rescues the human being
from ignorance to his own benefit. In one of the widely accepted definitions of
science, it is stated that it is the light which sheds to the hearts of those
who have been selected by the Almighty; therefore, according to this definition,
science is a divine gift, and the heart is where it resides.
If we accept that
"science" means "illumination," then its scope supersedes the experimental
sciences, and it includes every hidden and disclosed reality. One of the main
harms inflicted against science is to limit it to experimental and physical
sciences; this harm occurs even though it extends far beyond this scope.
Realities of the
world are not limited to physical realities. And the material is just a shadow
of supreme realities, and physical creation is just one of the stories of the
creation of the world. Human being is just an example of the creation that is a
combination of the material and the spirit.
And another
important point is the relationship of science and purity of spirit, life,
behavior and ethics of the human being. In the teachings of the divine prophet,
one reality shall always be attached to science. The reality of purity of spirit
and good behavior, knowledge and wisdom is pure and clear reality. It is --
science is a light. It is a discovery of reality, and only a pure scholar and
researcher, free from wrong ideologies, superstitions, selfishness and material
trappings, can discover the reality.
My dear friends and
scholars, distinguished participants, science and wisdom can also be misused, a
misuse caused by selfishness, corruption, material desires and material
interests, as well as individual and group interests. Material desires place
humans against the realities of the world. Corrupted independent human beings
resist acceptance of reality and even if they do accept it, they do not obey it.
There are many
scholars who are aware of the realities but do not accept them. Their
selfishness does not allow them to accept those realities. Did those who in the
course of human history wage wars not understand the reality that lives,
properties, dignity, territories and the rights of all human beings should be
respected? Or did they understand it but neither have faith in nor abide by it?
My dear friends, as
long as the human heart is not free from hatred, envy and selfishness, it does
not abide by the truth, by the illumination of science and science itself.
Science is the light and scientists must be pure and pious. If humanity achieves
the highest level of physical and spiritual knowledge, but its scholars and
scientists are not pure, then this knowledge cannot serve the interest of
humanity, and several events can ensue.
First, the
wrongdoers reveal only a part of the reality which is to their own benefit and
conceal the rest, as we have witnessed with respect to the scholars of the
divine religions in the past too. Unfortunately today we see that certain
researchers and scientists are still hiding the truth from the people.
Second, scientists
and scholars are misused for personal, group or party interests. So in today's
world, ruling powers are misusing many scholars and scientists in different
fields, with the purpose of stripping nations of their wealth.
And they use all
opportunities only for their own benefit.
For example, they
deceive people by using scientific methods and tools. They, in fact, wish to
justify their own wrongdoings, though, by creating nonexistent enemies, for
example, and have insecure atmosphere. They try to control all in the name of
combatting insecurity and terrorism. They even violate individual and social
freedoms in their own nations under that pretext. They do not respect the
privacy of their own people. They tap telephone calls and try to control their
people. They create an insecure psychological atmosphere in order to justify
their warmongering acts in different parts of the world.
As another example,
by using precise scientific methods and planning, they begin their onslaught on
the domestic cultures of nations, the cultures which are the result of thousands
of years of interaction, creativity and artistic activities. They try to
eliminate these cultures in order to separate the people from their identity and
cut their bonds with their own history and values. They prepare the ground for
stripping people from their spiritual and material wealth by instilling in them
feelings of intimidation, desire for imitation and mere consumption, submission
to oppressive powers, and disability.
Making nuclear,
chemical and biological bombs and weapons of mass destruction is yet another
result of the misuse of science and research by the big powers. Without
cooperation of certain scientists and scholars, we would not have witnessed
production of different nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. Are these
weapons to protect global security? What can a perpetual nuclear umbrella threat
achieve for the sake of humanity? If nuclear war wages between nuclear powers,
what human catastrophe will take place? Today we can see the nuclear effects in
even new generations of Nagasaki and Hiroshima residents which
might be witness in even the next generations to come. Presently, effects of the
depleted uranium used in weapons since the beginning of the war in
Iraq can be examined and investigated
accordingly. These catastrophes take place only when scientists and scholars are
misused by oppressors.
Another point of
sorrow, some big powers create a monopoly over science and prevent other nations
in achieving scientific development as well.
This, too, is one of
the surprises of our time. Some big powers do not want to see the progress of
other societies and nations. They turn to thousands of reasons, make
allegations, place economic sanctions to prevent other nations from developing
and advancing, all resulting from their distance from human values, moral values
and the teachings of the divine prophet. Regretfully, they have not been trained
to serve mankind.
Dear academics, dear
faculty and scholars, students, I believe that the biggest God-given gift to man
is science and knowledge. Man's search for knowledge and the truth through
science is what it guarantees to do in getting close to God, but science has to
combine with the purity of the spirit and of the purity of man's spirit so that
scholars can unveil the truth and then use that truth for advancing humanity's
cause.
These scholars would
be not only people who would guide humanity, but also guide humanity towards the
future, better future. And it is necessary that big powers should not allow
mankind to engage in monopolistic activities and to prevent other nations from
achieving that science. Science is a divine gift by God to everyone, and
therefore it must remain pure. God is aware of all reality. All researchers and
scholars are loved by God.
So I hope there will
be a day where these scholars and scientists will rule the world and God himself
will arrive with Moses and Christ and Mohammed to rule the world and to take us
towards justice.
I'd like to thank
you now, but refer to two points made in the introduction given about me, and
then I will be open for any questions.
Last year, I would
say two years ago, I raised two questions. You know that my main job is a
university instructor. Right now as president of Iran I still
continue teaching graduate and Ph.D.-level courses on a weekly basis. My
students are working with me in scientific fields. I believe that I am an
academic myself, so I speak with you from an academic point of view.
And I raised two
questions. But instead of a response, I got a wave of insults and allegations
against me, and regretfully, they came mostly from groups who claimed most to
believe in the freedom of speech and the freedom of information. You know quite
well that Palestine is an old wound, as old as 60 years.
For 60 years, these
people are displaced; for 60 years, these people are being killed; for 60 years,
on a daily basis, there's conflict and terror; for 60 years, innocent women and
children are destroyed and killed by helicopters and airplanes that break the
house over their heads; for 60 years, children in kindergartens in schools, in
high schools are in prison being tortured; for 60 years, security in the Middle
East has been in danger; for 60 years, the slogan of expansionism from the Nile
to the Euphrates has been chanted by certain groups in that part of the world.
And as an academic,
I ask two questions, the same two questions that I will ask here again. And you
judge for yourselves whether the response to these questions should be the
insults, the allegations and all the words and the negative propaganda, or
should we really try and face these two questions and respond to them? Like you,
like any academic, I, too, will keep -- not get -- become silent until I get the
answers, so I am awaiting logical answers instead of insults.
My first question
was, if, given that the Holocaust is a present reality of our time, a history
that occurred, why is there not sufficient research that can approach the topic
from different perspectives? Our friends refer to 1930 as the point of the
departure for this development; however, I believe the Holocaust, from what we
read, happened during World War II after 1930 in the 1940s. So, you know, we
have to really be able to trace the event.
My question was
simple. There are researchers who want to push the topic from a different
perspective. Why are they put into prison? Right now there are a number of
European academics who have been sent to prison because they attempted to write
about the Holocaust, so researchers from a different perspective, questioning
certain aspects of it -- my question is, why isn't it open to all forms of
research? I have been told that there's been enough research on the topic. And I
ask, well, when it comes to topics such as freedom, topics such as democracy,
concepts and norms such as God, religion, physics even or chemistry, there's
been a lot of research, but we still continue more research on those topics. We
encourage it. But then why don't we encourage more research on a historical
event that has become the root, the cause of many heavy catastrophes in the
region in this time and age? Why shouldn't there be more research about the root
causes? That was my first question.
And my second
question -- well, given this historical event, if it is a reality, we need to
still question whether the Palestinian people should be paying for it or not.
After all, it happened in Europe. The
Palestinian people had no role to play in it. So why is it that the Palestinian
people are paying the price of an event they had nothing to do with?
The Palestinian
people didn't commit any crime. They had no role to play in World War II. They
were living with the Jewish communities and the Christian communities in peace
at the time. They didn't have any problems. And today, too, Jews, Christians and
Muslims live in brotherhood all over the world, in many parts of the world. They
don't have any serious problems.
But why is it that
the Palestinians should pay a price, innocent Palestinians? For 5 million people
to remain displaced or refugees of war for 60 years are -- is this not a crime?
Is asking about these crimes a crime by itself? Why should an academic, myself,
face insults when asking questions like this? Is this what you call freedom and
upholding the freedom of thought?
And as for the
second topic, Iran's nuclear issue -- I know
there's time limits, but I need time. I mean, a lot of time was taken from me.
We are a country. We
are a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency. For over 33 years we
were a member state of the agency. The bylaw of the agency explicitly states
that all member states have the right to the peaceful nuclear fuel technology.
This is an explicit statement made in the bylaw. And the bylaw says that there
is no pretext or excuse, even the inspections carried by the IAEA itself -- that
can prevent member states' right to have that right.
Of course, the IAEA
is responsible to carry out inspections. We are one of the countries that's
carried out the most amount of -- level of cooperation with the IAEA. They've
had hours and weeks and days of inspections in our country. And over and over
again, the agency's reports indicate that Iran's activities are peaceful, that they have
not detected a deviation, and that Iran has -- they've received positive cooperation
from Iran. But regretfully, two or three
monopolistic powers, selfish powers, want to force their word on the Iranian
people and deny them their right. They keep saying -- one minute. (Laughter,
applause.)
They tell us you
don't let them -- they won't let them inspect. Why not? Of course we do. How
come is it anyway that you have that right and we can't have it? We want to have
the right to peaceful nuclear energy. They tell us, "Don't make it yourself.
We'll give it to you."
Well, in the past, I
tell you, we had contracts with the U.S. government, with the British
government, the French government, the German government and the Canadian
government on nuclear development for peaceful purposes. But unilaterally, each
and every one of them canceled their contracts with us, as a result of which the
Iranian people had to pay the heavy cost in billions of dollars.
Why do we need the
fuel from you? You've not even given us spare aircraft parts that we need for
civilian aircraft for 28 years, under the name of the embargo and sanctions,
because we are against, for example, human rights or freedom? Under that pretext
you deny us that technology?
We want to have the
right to self-determination towards our future. We want to be independent. Don't
interfere in us. If you don't give us spare parts for civilian aircraft, what is
the expectation that you'd give us fuel for nuclear development for peaceful
purposes?
For 30 years we've
faced these problems; for over $5 billion to the Germans and then to the
Russians, but we haven't gotten anything, and the worst have not been completed.
It is our right, we want our right, and we don't want anything beyond the law,
nothing less than what international law. We are a peaceful-loving nation. We
love all nations. (Applause, cheers, booing.)
MR.
COATSWORTH: Mr. President, your
statements here today and in the past have provoked many questions which I would
like to pose to you on behalf of the students and faculty who have submitted
them to me.
Let me begin with
the question to which you just --
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: (In English.) It is
one by one, one by one.
MR.
COATSWORTH: One by one, it is,
yes. (Applause.)
The first question
is: Do you or your
government seek the destruction of the state of Israel as a
Jewish state?
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: We love all
nations. We are friends with the Jewish people. There are many Jews in
Iran living peacefully with security.
You must understand that in our constitution, in our laws, in the parliamentary
elections, for every 150,000 people we get one representative in the parliament.
For the Jewish community, one-fifth of this number they still get one
independent representative in the parliament. So our proposal to the Palestinian
plight is a humanitarian and democratic proposal.
What we say is that
to solve the 60-year problem we must allow the Palestinian people to decide
about its future for itself. This is compatible with the spirit of the Charter
of the United Nations and the fundamental principles enshrined in it. We must
allow Jewish Palestinians, Muslim Palestinians and Christian Palestinians to
determine their own fate themselves through a free referendum. Whatever they
choose as a nation everybody should accept and respect. Nobody should interfere
in the affairs of the Palestinian nation. Nobody should sow the seeds of
discord. Nobody should spend tens of billions of dollars equipping and arming
one group there.
We say allow the
Palestinian nation to decide its own future, to have the right to
self-determination for itself. This is what we are saying as the Iranian nation.
(Applause.)
MR.
COATSWORTH: Mr. President, I
think many members of our audience would be -- would like to hear a clearer
answer to that question, that is -- (interrupted by cheers, applause).
The question
is: Do you or your
government seek the destruction of the state of Israel as a
Jewish state? And I think you could answer that question with a single word,
either yes or no. (Cheers, applause.)
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: And then you want
the answer the way you want to hear it. Well, this isn't really a free flow of
information. I'm just telling you where I -- what my position is. (Applause.)
I'm asking you, is
the Palestinian issue not an international issue of prominence or not? Please
tell me, yes or no. (Laughter, applause.)
There's a plight of
a people.
MR.
COATSWORTH: The answer to your
question is yes. (Laughter.)
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: Well, thank you for
your cooperation.
It is -- we
recognize there is a problem there that's been going on for 60 years. Everybody
provides a solution, and our solution is a free referendum. Let this referendum
happen, and then you'll see what the results are. Let the people of Palestine freely choose
what they want for their future. And then what you want in your mind to happen,
it will happen and will be realized. (Applause.)
MR.
COATSWORTH: Which was posed by
President Bollinger earlier and comes from a number of other students. Why is
your government providing aid to terrorists? Will you stop doing so and permit
international monitoring to certify that you have stopped?
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: Well, I want to
pose a question here to you. If someone comes and explodes bombs around you,
threatens your president, members of the administration, kills the members of
the Senate or Congress, how would you treat them? Would you award them or would
you name them a terrorist group? Well, it's clear. You would call them a
terrorist.
My dear friends, the
Iranian nation is a victim of terrorism. For -- 26 years ago, where I work,
close to where I work, in a terrorist operation, the elected president of the
Iranian nation and the elected prime minister of Iran lost their lives in a bomb
explosion. They turned into ashes.
A month later, in
another terrorist operation, 72 members of our parliament and highest ranking
officials, including four ministers and eight deputy ministers, bodies were
shattered into pieces as a result of terrorist attacks. Within six months, over
4,000 Iranians lost their lives, assassinated by terrorist groups, all this
carried out by the hand of one single terrorist group. Regretfully that same
terrorist group, now, today, in your country, is being -- operating under the
support of the U.S. administration, working freely,
distributing declarations freely. And their camps in Iraq are supported by the U.S. government.
They're secured by the U.S. government.
Our nation has been
harmed by terrorist activities. We were the first nation that objected to
terrorism and the first to uphold the need to fight terrorism. (Applause.)
MR.
COATSWORTH: A number of
questioners, sorry, a number of people have asked.
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: We need to address
the root causes of terrorism and eradicate those root causes.
We live in the
Middle East. For us, it's quite clear which
powers sort of incite terrorists, support them, fund them. We know that. Our
nation, the Iranian nation, through history has always extended a hand of
friendship to other nations. We're a cultured nation. We don't need to resort to
terrorism.
We've been victims
of terrorism ourselves, and it's regrettable that people who argue they're
fighting terrorism, instead of supporting the Iranian people and nation, instead
of fighting the terrorists that are attacking them, they're supporting the
terrorists and then turn the fingers to us. This is most regrettable.
MR.
COATSWORTH: A further set of
questions challenge your view of the Holocaust. Since the evidence that this
occurred in Europe in the 1940s as a result of
the actions of the German Nazi government, since that -- those facts are
well-documented, why are you calling for additional research? There seems to be
no purpose in doing so, other than to question whether the Holocaust actually
occurred as an historical fact. Can you explain why you believe more research is
needed into the facts of what are -- what is incontrovertible?
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: Thank you very much
for your question. I am an academic, and you are as well. Can you argue that
researching a phenomenon is finished forever, done? Can we close the books for
good on a historical event? There are different perspectives that come to light
after every research is done. Why should we stop research at all? Why should we
stop the progress of science and knowledge? You shouldn't ask me why I'm asking
questions. You should ask yourselves why you think that it's questionable.
Why do you want to
stop the progress of science and research? Do you ever take what's known as
absolute in physics? We had principles in mathematics that were granted to be
absolute in mathematics for over 800 years, but new science has gotten rid of
those absolutism, gotten -- forward other different logics of looking at
mathematics, and sort of turned the way we look at it as a science altogether
after 800 years. So we must allow researchers, scholars to investigate into
everything, every phenomenon -- God, universe, human beings, history, and
civilization. Why should we stop that?
I'm not saying that
it didn't happen at all. This is not (the ?) judgment that I'm passing here. I
said in my second question, granted this happened, what does it have to do with
the Palestinian people? This is a serious question. They're two dimension. In
the first question, I --
MR.
COATSWORTH: Let me just -- let
me pursue this a bit further. It is difficult to have a scientific discussion if
there isn't at least some basis -- some empirical basis, some agreement about
what the facts are. So, calling for research into the facts when the facts are
so well-established represents for many a challenging of the facts themselves
and a denial that something terrible occurred in Europe in those years. (Applause.)
Let me move on to --
(pause).
Mr. President,
another student asks, Iranian women are now denied basic human rights, and your
government has imposed draconian punishments, including execution on Iranian
citizens who are homosexuals. Why are you doing those things?
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: Those in
Iran are genuine true freedoms. The
Iranian people are free. Women in Iran enjoy the highest levels of
freedoms. We have two deputy vice -- well, two vice presidents that are female
at the highest levels of speciality; specialized (roles ?) in our parliament and
our government and our universities, they are present in our biotechnological
fields and our technological fields. There are hundreds of women scientists that
are active in the political realm as well.
It's not -- it's
wrong for some governments, when they disagree with another government, to sort
of -- try to spread lies that distort the full truth. Our nation is free. It has
the highest level of participation in elections. In Iran, 80 percent
-- 90 percent of the people turn out for votes during the elections, half of
which -- over half of which are women, so how can we say that women are not
free? Is that the entire truth?
But as for the
executions, I'd like to raise two questions. If someone comes and establishes a
network for illicit drug trafficking that affects the (use ?) in
Iran, Turkey, Europe, the United States by
introducing these illicit drugs and destroys them, would you ever reward them?
People who lead the lives -- cause the deterioration of the lives of hundreds of
millions of youth around the world, including in Iran, can we
have any sympathy to them? Don't you have capital punishment in the
United
States? You do, too. (Applause.)
In
Iran, too, there's capital punishment
for illicit drug traffickers, for people who violate the rights of people.
If somebody takes up
a gun, goes into a house, kills a group of people there, and then tries to take
ransom, how would you confront them in Iran with -- in the United States?
Would you reward them? Can a physician allow microbes, symbolically speaking, to
spread across a nation? We have laws. People who violate the public rights of
the people by using guns, killing people, creating insecurity, sell drugs,
distribute drugs at a high level are sentenced to execution in Iran, and some of
these punishments -- very few are carried in the public eye, before the public
eye. It's a law based on democratic principles. You use injections and microbes
to kill these people, and they are executed or they're hung, but the end result
is killing.
MR.
COATSWORTH: (Off mike) -- and
drug smugglers. The question was about sexual preference and women. (Applause.)
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: In
Iran, we don't have homosexuals like
in your country. (Laughter.) We don't have that in our country. (Booing.) In
Iran, we do not have this phenomenon.
I don't know who's told you that we have it. (Laughter.)
But as for women,
maybe you think that being a woman is a crime. It's not a crime to be a woman.
Women are the best creatures created by God. They represent the kindness, the
beauty that God instills in them. Women are respected in Iran. In
Iran, every family who's given a girl
is given -- in every Iranian family who has a girl, they're 10 times happier
than having a son. Women are respected more than men are. They are exempt from
many responsibilities. Many of the legal responsibilities rest on the shoulders
of men in our society because of the respect culturally given to women, to the
future mothers. In Iranian culture, men and sons and girls constantly kiss the
hands of their mothers as a sign of respect, a respect for women, and we are
proud of this culture.
MR.
COATSWORTH: (Off mike) -- one
is, what did you hope to accomplish by speaking at Columbia today?
And the second is,
what would you have said if you were permitted to visit the site of the
September 11th tragedy?
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: Well, here I'm your
guest. I've been invited by Columbia, an official invitation given for me
to come here, but I do want to say something here.
In
Iran, when you invite a guest you
respect them. This is our tradition required by our culture, and I know that
American people have that culture as well.
Last year, I wanted
to go to the site of the September 11th tragedy to show respect to the victims
of the tragedy, show my sympathy with their families, but our plans got
overextended. We were involved in negotiations and meetings `till midnight, and
they said it would be very difficult to go visit the site at that late hour of
the night. So I told my friends then that we need to plan this for the following
year, so that I can go and visit the site and to show my respects. Regretfully,
some groups had very strong reactions, very bad reactions. It's bad for someone
-- to prevent someone to show sympathy to the families of the victims of the
September 11 event -- tragic event.
This is a respect
from my side. Somebody told me this is an insult. I said: What are you saying?
This is my way of showing my respect. Why would you think that? Thinking like
that, how do you expect to manage the world and world affairs? Don't you think
that a lot of problems in the world come from the way you look at issues because
of this kind of way of thinking, because of this sort of pessimistic approach
towards a lot of people because of certain level of selfishness, self-absorption
that needs to be put aside so that we can show respect to everyone, to allow an
environment for friendship to grow, to allow all nations to talk with one
another and move towards peace?
I wanted to speak
with the press. There is 11 September -- September 11 tragic event was a huge
event. It led to a lot of many other events afterwards. After 9/11,
Afghanistan was occupied and
then Iraq was occupied, and for six years
in our region there is insecurity, terror and fear. If the root causes of 9/11
are examined properly -- why it happened, what caused it, what were the
conditions that led to it, who truly was involved, who was really involved --
and put it all together to understand how to prevent the crisis in
Iraq, fix the problem in
Afghanistan and
Iraq combined.
MR.
COATSWORTH: A number of
questions have asked about your nuclear program. Why is your government seeking
to acquire enriched uranium suitable for nuclear weapons? Will you stop doing
so?
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: Our nuclear
program, first and foremost, operates within the framework of law, and second,
under the inspections of the IAEA, and thirdly, they are completely peaceful.
The technology we have is for enrichment below the level of 5 percent level, and
any level below 5 percent is solely for providing fuel to power plants. Repeated
reports by the IAEA explicitly say that there is no indication that
Iran has deviated from the peaceful
path of its nuclear program. We're all well aware that Iran's nuclear
issue is a political issue; it's not a legal issue.
The International
Atomic Energy Organization -- Agency has verified that our activities are for
peaceful purposes. But there are two or three powers that think that they have
the right to monopolize all science and knowledge. And they expect the Iranian
people, the Iranian nation, to turn to others to get fuel, to get science, to
get knowledge that's indigenous to itself -- to humble itself. And then they
would of course refrain from giving it to us too.
So we're quite clear
on what we need. If you have created the fifth generation of atomic bombs and
are testing them already, what position are you in to question the peaceful
purposes of other people who want nuclear power? (Applause.) We do not believe
in nuclear weapons, period. It goes against the whole grain of humanity.
So let me just tell
a joke here. I think the politicians who are after atomic bombs or are testing
them, making them -- politically they are backward, retarded. (Applause.)
MR.
COATSWORTH: I know your time is
short and that you need to move on.
Is
Iran prepared to open broad
discussions with the government of the United States? What would
Iran hope to achieve in such
discussions? How do you see, in the future, a resolution of the points of
conflict between the government of the United
States and the government of Iran?
PRESIDENT
AHMADINEJAD: From the start, we
announced that we are ready to negotiate with all countries. Since 28 years ago,
when our revolution succeeded and we established -- we took freedom and
democracy that was held at bay by a pro-Western dictatorship, we announced our
readiness that besides two countries, we are ready to have friendly relations
and talks with all countries of the world. One of those two was the apartheid
regime of South
Africa, which has been eliminated, and the
second is the Zionist regime. For everybody else around the world, we announced
that we want to have friendly, brotherly ties.
The Iranian nation
is a cultured nation. It is a civilized nature. It seeks, it wants, new talks
and negotiations. It's for it. We believe that in negotiations and talks,
everything can be resolved very easily. We don't need threats; we don't need to
point bombs or guns; we don't need to get into conflict if we talk. We have a
clear logical about that.
We question the way
the world is being run and managed today. We believe that it will not lead to
viable peace and security for the world, the way it's run today. We have
solutions based on humane values and for relations among states. With the
U.S. government, too, we will
negotiate. We don't have any issues about that, under fair, just circumstances
with mutual respect on both sides.
You saw that in
order to help the security of Iraq, we had three rounds of talks with the
United
States. And last year, before coming to
New York, I announced that I am ready, in the
United Nations, to engage in a debate with Mr. Bush, the president of the
United
States, about critical international issues. So
that shows that we want to talk, having a debate before the world public --
before all the audience, so that truth is revealed, so that misunderstandings
and misperceptions are removed, so that we can find a clear path for brotherly
and friendly relations. I think that if the U.S. administration -- if the U.S. government
puts aside some of its old behaviors, it can actually be a good friend for the
Iranian people, for the Iranian nation.
For 28 years they've
consistently threatened us, insulted us, prevented our scientific development,
every day under one pretext or another. You all know Saddam the dictator was
supported by the government of the United
States and some Europeans countries in attacking
Iran. And in -- he carried out an
eight-year war, a criminal war. Over 200,000 Iranians were -- lost their lives.
Over 600,000 Iranians were hurt as a result of a war. He used chemical weapons;
thousands of Iranians were victims of chemical weapons that he used against us.
Today, Mr. Nobal Vinh (ph), who is a reporter, an official reporter,
international reporter, who was covering U.N. reports in U.N. for many years, he
is one of the victims of the chemical weapons used by Iraq against us.
And since then,
we've been under different propaganda sort of embargoes, economic sanctions,
political sanctions. Why? Because we got rid of a dictator? Because we wanted
the freedom and democracy that we got for ourselves? But we can't always tell.
We think that if the U.S. government recognizes the rights
of the Iranian people, respects all nations, and extends a hand of friendship
with all Iranians, they too will see that Iranians will be one of its best
friends.
Will you allow me to
thank the audience a moment?
I -- well, there are
many things that I would have liked to cover, but I don't want to take your time
any further. I was asked, would I allow the faculty and Columbia students here to come to Iran? From this
platform, I invite Columbia faculty members and
students to come and visit Iran, to speak with our university
students. You are officially invited. (Applause).
University faculty
and the students that the university decides are the student association's
chosen select are welcome to come. You're welcome to visit any university that
you choose inside Iran. We'll provide you with a list
of the universities. There are over 400 universities in our country, and you can
choose whichever you want to go and visit.
We'll give you the
true platform. You can -- we'll respect you 100 percent. We will have our
students sit there and listen to you, speak with you, hear what you have to say.
Right now in our
universities on a daily basis, there are hundreds of meetings like this. They
hear, they talk, they ask questions, they welcome it.
In the end, I'd like
to thank Columbia
University. I had heard
that many politicians in the United States are trained in Columbia University,
and there are many people here who believe in the freedom of speech, in clear,
frank conversations; I do like to extend my gratitude to the managers here in
the United States -- at Columbia University -- I apologize -- the people who so
well-organized this meeting today. I'd like to extend my deepest gratitude to
the faculty members and the dear students here. I ask Almighty God to assist all
of us to move hand in hand to establish peace and future filled with friendship
and justice and brotherhood. Best of luck to all of you. (Applause.)
MR.
BOLLINGER: I'm sorry that
President Ahmadinejad's schedule makes it necessary for him to leave before he's
been able to answer many of the questions that we have or even answer some of
the ones that we posed to him. (Laughter, applause.) But I think we can all be
pleased that his appearance here demonstrates Columbia's deep commitment to free expression
and debate. I want to thank you all for coming to participate. (Applause.)
Thank you.
END.
