Interview
by Behdad Bordbar
A
conversation with one of the most important dissident intellectuals of our time.
Johan
Galtung,
distinguished professor of Sociology, Peace and conflict research and world renowned
founder of the academic discipline of peace research and founder of PRIO, is
currently director of TRANSCEND, a global
peace and development network. He has served at so many universities that he has
"probably taught more students on more campuses around the world than any other
contemporary sociologist. The long life peace activist during the 1970s
predicted the downfall of the Soviet Union in 1990.
I had the honor
to interview him on Iran.
Q:
What is now known as Iran's Green Movement was born on June 13, 2009, in
reaction to massive electoral fraud during the Islamic Republic's tenth
presidential election. Tree reformist candidates claimed the election was rigged
but government rejects any claims of fraud. In the aftermath of the elections,
anti-government rallies evolved on streets of Tehran and peacefull demonstrators
participated in silent walks. But government of Iran harshly reacted to that;
numerous reformist politicians, journalists, Human Rights activists and students
were arrested. There are serious concerns of torture, rape, show trials and systemic restrictions of freedom of peaceful assembly and association and
freedom of expression. Sum up the
situation in Iran as you understand them.
A: I am not so sure about
the election issue. As far as I understand the result were very compatible with
the polls made by BBC (and ABC) before the election. At any rate, the major
issues you mention by far overshadow any election fraud, so I would focus on
them.
The crucial point seems to me to be the contradictions built
into a theocracy in this age of so much modernity and secularism, also in Iran
where I have been many times. And the point about theocracy goes beyond freedom
of thought. Theocracy means rule by the true, usually self-appointed, believers
or at last not declared non-believers. It differs from the Shah rule 1953-78
which was certainly autocratic, but not theocratic. What Iranians want,
possibly a clear majority, is a system that is democratic. In that system, shia
Islam will still play a major role, but there will have to be a separation
between the theocratic Qom-based hierarchy and a democratic Tehran-based
hierarchy, like Italy managed to separate Vatican rule and Rome rule.
Q:
I want to ask you about nonviolence and disobedience. There are doubts about
success of such strategies while oil rich regime is using violence on the one
hand and maintains control of financial section, police, media and is backed by
support of groups of loyalists and majority of Ayatollahs.
A: Nonviolence has been successful against worse combinations
than that, like against the whole British Empire, against entrenched racism in
the USA, against the post-Stalinist regimes in Eastern Europe, against apartheid
in South Africa. But there are some conditions. There had to be a relatively
clearly formulated goal (independence, equal rights, human rights in general,
one-person-one-vote). I have not yet seen that clear formulation from the
opposition in Iran; to be against the present regime is not good enough. The
whole outcome may actually depend on this as it becomes easy for the regime to
say, they have no alternative. There is also some doubt about how nonviolent
the opposition is.
Q: United States and EU
are blaming Iran for support of terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah?
Iranian government though calls them freedom fighters and denies arming of the
Islamist groups. What do you think about this political dilemma? Are you
optimistic about any peaceful resolutions for Middle East?
A: In complex conflicts there are always many truths; this is one of
them. In no way does it cancel the points made above. A strong opposition can
be both genuine and be backed by the USA--UK-Israel. Incidentally, USA and
Israel also have strong theocratic elements.
The Palestinians are among the worst treated peoples in modern history by
extremely brutal Israeli colonialism, initiated by the UK from 1917, supported
by USA from 1967. Yes, I think that within 20 years we have a solution, a
Middle East Community with Israel and the five neighbouring Arab states, one of
them being Palestine fully recognized, modelled on the European Community of
1958. The only way out, and it helps that the US Empire, not the USA, is on its
way down (The Fall of the US Empire - And Then What, TRANSCEND University Press,
2009; see
www.transcend.org/tup).
I understand Hezbollah and Hamas, have had dialogues with them, and think they
would have come much further with nonviolence. They have a clear goal, however:
a viable Palestinian state based on the pre-June 1967 war borders with some
minor modifications. There are extremist who go beyond that and there certainly
are extremists in Israel, but this could be viable within a Middle East
Community setting. See my 50 Years: 100 Peace and Conflict Perspectives,
as above.
Q:
Iranians have suffered by intervention of colonial super powers and despotism,
now Iran is under UN sanctions for insisting on producing
enriched uranium. Nuclear issues are very technical for public; as I understand
Iranian nuclear program is in the middle of nowhere, but US and UN sanctions are
going on. In July 2009, Yukiya Amano, the
incoming head of the IAEA said that he did not see any evidence Iran was trying
to gain the ability to develop nuclear arms. I would like to hear your comments
on effects of sanctions.
A: Those sanctions will stimulate the Iranian government and is
a major factor keeping them in power, being so obviously unjustified. Countries
that have done so much wrong in the regions as that triple, UK-USA-Israel,
fearing that their time is running out, naturally become paranoid. My strong
feeling is that a full admission and apology for the 1953 coup by the triple,
and if Obama at least acknowledged something, would help a lot.
Q: Group of Iranian dissidents trying to bring a case to ICC to
prosecute authorities who are involved in atrocities and major crackdown in
Iran. Do you think such efforts may help the betterment of daily life for my
fellow Iranians?
A: The trouble with ICC
is that it has become a court focusing on the minor crimes of countries down in
the world hierarchy, particularly those in Africa, letting the triple
(UK-USA-Israel) off with impunity. The bombing of Iraq, the sanctions on Iraq,
the Gaza massacre so similar to the Warsaw ghetto. There is no equality for the
law; hence no law. A case will make them even more determined and they will be
supported by many in the population.
Q: The Nobel laureate Shirin Ebadi in her
recent interview said if the United States pursues
sanctions and help convince ordinary Iranians that sanctions are aimed at the
regime, not the people, it might eventually help to bring democracy to
Iran. If you had a chance to send her a message what would that message be?
A: I would say that such sanctions, often called "smart
sanctions," are very difficult to design and operate, like "smart bombs" there
will be much collateral damage in the population so they could easily backfire.
What is needed is a Conference on Security and Cooperation in the West Asia,
under UN auspices, to discuss the Middle East, the Kurdish situation, Iraq and
Iran (Afghanistan is Central Asia), modelled on the excellent Helsinki
conference 1972-75. That situation was also very complex, confusing and
confused with much at stake. USA-UK not being countries in the region would be
invited as observers; Israel as a participant which would be difficult for some,
but they are in the UN. There is an excellent candidate for the role of Finland:
Turkey, now playing a major bridging role in the region.
-
I have used
www.Wikipedia.org to introduce
professor Galtung
- PRIO stands for Peace
Research Institute of Oslo:
www.prio.no
-
Galtung is currently director
of TRANSCEND INTERNATIONAL:
www.transcend.org
-
I have referred to
this Interview of Ms Ebadi
The Peace
Research course has been part of the University of Oslo International Summer
School since 1969. PRIO is responsible for the academic syllabus, as well as
for teaching and other practical matters. The author was admitted at this program
in 2007. |
... Payvand News - 01/27/10 ... --
